Insights

Podcast: The true value of awards

27 March 2021
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Adam Tuckwell

In the latest episode of Mobas' after hours podcast, What's The Point? Creative Director Greg Bryant, Head of Brand and Insight Katie Vickery and Commercial Director Adam Tuckwell discuss the point of entering work for awards. 

In a far-reaching discussion, the team cover glamour and the prestige that comes with award wins, the cost vs the benefits and how entering awards can actually make you a better marketer. The episode was interrupted midway through with news that our Campaign for the Royal Society of Chemistry had won a European Digital Impact Award, which was rather fortuitous timing. 



Episode transcript 

Adam:
Hello and welcome to What's The Point? An after-hours podcast series brought to you by Mobas. On today's episode, we're joined by Creative Director, Greg Bryant and Head of Brand and Insight, Katie Vickery, and I'm Adam Tuckwell, Commercial Director at Mobas. And this is our after-hours podcast, so we're sitting in our homes after hours, and whilst we're recording this video, there's an awards ceremony going on, an award ceremony where Mobas is shortlisted for one of our campaigns that we've delivered for one of our clients.

And so awards are very much front of mind for us and it got us thinking about how we get very excited about awards in agency land, but some of us have also worked in-house and the glamor that comes with winning awards, the prestige that comes with it can be really valuable, but awards are complex, they're expensive, there are a huge number of them, and lots of people at the moment will be writing their award submissions as it seems to be the season for it.

So we wanted to discuss on today's episode, what is the point of entering awards? And so I wanted to start by just talking to the team about whether awards are prominent and important to them in the way that they work and develop their ideas, or is it just a nice thing to have a few gongs sitting around the office? Greg, do you want to go first?

Greg:
Yeah, I mean I do see a value in it. My mindset has changed over time and as much as I was always against industry back-patting and being recognized, people within the industry saying, "Oh, aren't we great?" That never really appealed to me because what we do is all about the people that we do it for, and you want to appeal to those people and be recognized by those people, not necessarily your competition. They're never going to be your customers, right?

So that was always my kind of standpoint, but I have changed my mind over time. It has evolved in as much as I do recognize that industry awards that are recognized, so that are from big industry publications are important because it allows potential customers or potential clients to use it as a mark against you as an agency to say, "You are good at what you're doing. You're recognized as being good within your industry at what you do." And I think that could be the thing that tips the balance when agencies are pitching against each other or potential customers are looking at different agencies, the fact that you have been recognized within your industry with awards for the work that you've done could have a really, really great standing with potential clients.

And so that's how my mindset has changed over it really. I still believe that it's better to be recognized by other industries and by customers and by clients than it is to be recognized within your own industry, but I appreciate the importance of those awards to be able to go to other industries and prove that you're good at what you do.

Adam:
Katie, you're a multi-award winner. What do you think of awards? Are you a big fan, a big advocate?

Katie:
I think I am slightly cynical of awards. I don't know whether that's because my history was working in London agencies and I think there's a lot of, as you put it back-patting, Greg, or egos in that kind of space. And there are lots of really, very good big agencies in London who win awards every year. And they win awards every year, it's kind of an expectation. Everyone goes to Cannes and has lots of drink and lots of other things.

And I think that moving to Cambridge and moving to Mobas, we are doing, and I'm not just saying this, we're doing some fantastic work and some fantastic campaigns, but can you always be recognized on that bigger stage against those agencies that are known, that just have a much bigger reputation on a larger scale?

And you go into these agencies and they have bookshelves full of awards. And I think some of it is for ego, I think some of it is rightly for showing clients they know what they're doing. I actually think that it's important to... I also think that these agencies have huge resources and money to spend on entering every single award they possibly can, like scatter gun approach just to try and get some trophies in the cabinet. And I think that actually it should be much more targeted. It should be much more carefully considered. And these things take an awful lot of time to enter, some of them cost an awful lot of money. And if you're thinking, well, what's the likelihood of us getting shortlisted? Or what's the likelihood of us winning the award? And the investment versus that, I don't think it's... I suppose what I'm saying is I don't think it's particularly accessible for other less well-known agencies who are still doing fantastic work.

It's not to say I'm against them. I'm absolutely not. I think they're a fantastic thing and particularly for all the hard work that agencies put into these campaigns and these projects, it's a real recognition. It's a chance to let loose and go to an awards ceremony and have fun and celebrate as a team and celebrate with the client. But I just think it still feels a little bit old fashioned and I think it needs to evolve, it needs to move on.

Greg:
Yeah, I agree with that, but I also see it in what we do. As creatives, you have to be quite different as a person and you crave that recognition a lot of the time. And particularly with creative work, you become much more attached to it because it's something that you have come up with. It's something that you've... It's your idea, it's your baby. It's an idea. And yeah, that changes and it molds as you go through, because ultimately it's about being right for the brief, but it's still your idea, it's still come out of... If I come up to me, it's come out of my brain and it's my idea coming to life and everybody craves recognition for that kind of thing, right?

So in that way, I think from a personal standpoint, awards are great because it is that recognition. It's that recognition that what we've done is good and does work. And it depends on what the award is based on. Is it based on results? Is it based on ideas? Are there any markers that need to... Just because a campaign from a creative standpoint is really great. Did it perform? Did it work for the customer? Did it meet the brief? Because for me, that's much more valuable and that's something that should be rewarded rather than just a brilliant idea. Because you're going to have a brilliant idea. It might not work. It's got to be on brief.

And the other thing that I think is really important with award ceremonies is that it's a level playing field. And I know it is, but sometimes you can be swung by an agency name or a big brand that's being worked on or a famous campaign rather. Just because something's had a lot of money thrown at its media spend and everybody knows that campaign, doesn't mean it's any better than a campaign that's just run on social for a smaller business.

Adam:
So Greg, I really want to pull on that thread because I think that's really fascinating. I think it's very difficult to have equal standing for every campaign if a business or brand has a significantly higher level of brand awareness, people are going to be more responsive to a campaign, even if it's a mediocre one, if they've got a really good understanding of it. And so there is a degree of some brands have a headstart.

And Katie, your point about lots of agencies winning lots of awards, for about four years in a row, I judged one category within the CIPR, the Chartered Institute of PR Awards. And for that, they had a really rigorous scoring mechanism where you then shortlisted. So you gave points per category. So there was things against brief objectives, results, cost, all that sort of stuff. You scored and then you shortlisted the eight top entries and then invited them in for an interview where we challenged them on their campaign.

And for me, it was fascinating because there are big businesses and big agencies who are just amazing at writing award entries. So actually, if you spend a bit of time investigating what you're meant to submit, you can write and craft these beautiful award entries that will take a mediocre campaign through to a shortlist phase just by being well-written and clearly articulating the point and value of what they do. And then it was really interesting when we met people face to face, it was clear that they just had pitch teams. They had award teams, they had people that were just gunning for this, but what I really liked and what I really found interesting was speaking to people who entered the award because of a huge degree of pride.

So actually they weren't starting a campaign thinking, "Right, we're going to do this because we're wanting to win this award, or we want to do this," but accidentally a campaign has really resonated and done really well. And then they're entering. And I always had a lot more time for people who were authentically brilliant. You know what I mean? Rather than had a campaign that was just there to build up and deliver, which I think is really interesting.

It tied into that point that Greg talked about, about what awards you enter. There are millions of them. There's a wonderful website, and we'll put the link in the show notes just to list all the relevant marketing, advertising, and creative awards that there are out there pulling everything from various different sectors and insights and stuff like that. And it would be great to then reflect on that, to see well actually, what's more important for you?

So if you're a business operating in professional services, do you want a massive creative award or would it be better to win an award from the Law Society? Would it be beneficial to win a sector-based award, which is actually going to deliver not any recognition against you and your peers, but will also help you potentially win business? It will help you gain recognition.

And also just to play devil's advocate, if you've got a campaign that you want to win an award for, is it better to win a sector-based award where there's probably less competition? Or would you go and be shortlisted so you could say you've been shortlisted for this amazing award, but your chance of winning because your brand might not be as recognized or the campaign is difficult to prove effectiveness might hold you back?

Katie:
Yeah. And I think that's a really interesting balance to strike, isn't it? There's always going to be an element of, "Wow, we're really proud of this campaign and we really want to enter it in for an award and recognize the team and all the fantastic talent that we have." I think there's always going to be an element of that and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it's also, as you say Adam, it's thinking about, what do you want to achieve in addition to that? Is it that you would quite like some more professional services clients? 

Adam:
I'm just going to interrupt you for a moment, just to say that the campaign that we put in for the Royal Society has just won the best use of social media for the Digital Impact Awards. So that's great news. Clearly, there is real value in winning awards.

Greg:
Love awards. Awards are brilliant.

Katie:
That's great.

Adam:
Which is nice. Sorry Katie, I stopped you mid-flow. Do carry on.

Katie:
No. Oh my goodness. That's fantastic news. That's excellent. What was I saying? I was just going to say, I think it depends what your objective is. Is it to win new business in a particular sector? And therefore, do you want to enter into an award that is sector specific? Do you want to demonstrate your fantastic creative expertise? It's thinking about all those things and I think it's thinking about what you want to achieve and being quite as targeted as you feel comfortable with in terms of the level of investment you want to make. And I think if you're not a business who regularly enters awards, or you don't have that pitch team who all they do is write awards, or awards submissions, then just think about it really carefully and think about how much time you're willing to commit to doing that and make sure that it's worth your while.

And also, there are other ways that you can demonstrate your expertise and your performance with case studies, some can be really boring, but some can be fantastic. Getting clients to write you testimonials or getting talking heads from clients or businesses that you're working with. Getting those type of firsthand accounts of what you're like to work with as a business, the success that you've achieved with actual numbers. It doesn't just have to be a trophy, but getting a trophy and getting an award is always a lovely thing, and it's not at all saying it's negative, it's a fantastic thing. Just think really carefully about what you're trying to get out of it.

Greg:
Yeah. I think it's also important as well as what you want to get out of it, is when you're entering for an award, who's it for? Is it for us as an agency to say, "Aren't we great? Isn't what we've done brilliant?" Or is it for our client to say, "We've worked in partnership with these guys as clients and actually they've won the award, not us, it's their campaign." We create things, but we do it for clients. It's theirs. The one we've just won for social media, it's great, but it's their award as well. It's their campaign. They own it.

Katie:
It's a chance to celebrate together as well. It's so lovely going to an award ceremony with a client. It's so much... It almost means so much more because you're there together as a team. You're partners together, "Look what we've achieved." It's not, "Aren't we brilliant? We're a fantastic agency. We're really, really great at creative ideas or really, really good strategy," or whatever it might be.

It's something that you've built together as two independent businesses and you've come together with probably quite different objectives. One might be to show amazing creativity and the other might be to show how fantastic that internal marketing team are and what fantastic efforts they're doing.

So the fact that you can come together in that way and showcase a fantastic campaign, like the one we've done for [inaudible 00:14:55] Chemistry, we're all so incredibly proud of that work and we're even prouder of it because of the collaborative approach that we've taken with that client and we've grown very close with them. 

Adam:
So one of the things we've touched upon in the pod in the past, Katie, just that really ties into that is this idea of evaluating campaigns and evaluating their effectiveness. And often in agency land, we fall into the trap of just moving from one project onto the next and we go and there's always more things to explore, different clients to service and support. And we are always striving to spend more time evaluating the effectiveness of our campaigns. Award entries are an amazing way of drawing together all the different threads of the campaign, how it works, why we started, what the objectives were, how we understood the problem, how we created a solution that would deliver the results for the client or for the project that's required.

And award entries, the methodical way of entering them, of thinking about them can really help with that post-campaign evaluation and help you start to think about how effective it could be, how you write about it, how you portray it, how you explain it. And that could be wonderful, but there are some people who then take that further and take that approach into the planning of their campaigns too. So actually, you almost create your campaign to be a campaign that could be entered into awards.

So at the start, we're really thinking and it's a really great practice to be thinking, not just instantly what the creative should be, what the messaging would be, but really to think, what is my end goal with this? What is my success criteria? What would good look like? And how do I then pair that back? Because having a really firm understanding of what would make this campaign win awards is really important, but also how it would make a difference for the client will help guide the type of media that you use, the type of campaign that you use to be able to get a really good understanding. I think it's interesting.

When I look at awards, we often see campaigns that resonate and do really well, but they're single-channel campaigns. So they're a campaign that's been really effective on social media, or they're a campaign that's been really effective because they've had this amazing billboard, or this amazing TV ad campaign, or something like that. Do we think people striving for award wins or perhaps it's just the nature of the way in which we utilize the different marketing tactics that we have, do you think we're seeing the end of multimedia campaigns, multi-channel campaigns in favor of people having a single thread or a single tactic that they can pour all their efforts into?

So Katie, if we use your experience that you've had with Cadbury's Creme Egg, yeah? If we look to the future with that brand, everyone's always really excited because that comes out every Easter, or it comes out 1st of January or whenever it is-

Katie:
Yeah. 1st of January.

Adam:
... to come out in time for Easter, everyone's expecting that. It's got really good brand recognition. Everyone knows about it, but you need a campaign, you need something to make it spark and come alive for that. Could you do that most effectively by actually having a single-channel campaign, something on social rather than adopting what we previously would have done of having a multi-channel, multifaceted campaign? 

Katie:
I think that it's a really, really good question. I think that we've become so obsessed, and rightly so really, in measuring success of our marketing activities. CMOs and Marketing Directors are constantly having to battle at that high board level, C-suite level in terms of the value of marketing, what it's bringing to the business, turn an investment. And I think people therefore naturally are moving more towards digital channels. They're moving more towards social, towards email, et cetera, et cetera, to say, "Look, hasn't..." Because they can easily say, "We've spent this much on marketing on social media. We've had this many leads." It's so much more easy to measure now. And there are so many more digital specialists out there that can help you track that, which is fantastic. That's really, really, really good.

I think, though, that it does make us a little bit forgetful that there are so many other absolutely brilliant offline channels that we should be looking at. It doesn't mean that they're easier to measure. They're really, really difficult to measure actually. You might have an out of home ad, massive billboard somewhere or on a bus stop. And all you can say is, "Oh, the footfall in that area is roughly this. And there's a few shops in that..." It's really, really, really hard to measure.

But I personally think that a multi-channel campaign is going to be always so much more effective than just going online. I think because you need to constantly, from a really, really basic marketing perspective, you need to be able to constantly remind people of the same message again and again and again. If you just see one ad on Instagram, you see the ad on Instagram, fine, brilliant, you've seen it. But if the business also buy media that ties into the behavior of that target audience, so that person who likes to engage with Instagram who follows other certain channels also happens to shop in Waitrose, or also happens to shop in a particular shopping center and then there's a billboard there, that for me is much more clever because you're having to link all of those things together and think about the behavior of that person, not just, they're this age, they're this gender, they've got this job title, et cetera. Thinking more about how they interact with lots of different types of media.

It is more difficult to measure, and it's therefore more difficult to justify to your stakeholders to say, "Please can I have X number of pounds for my marketing budget next year, please Mr. CFO?" But I do think it has... And from a creative perspective, like to hear your opinion Greg, but I also think it gives you so much more freedom because you can think about each of those channels, yes, as part of the bigger mix, but you can think about them in terms of what their strength is.

So there's some really cool stuff that people do now with out of home, big billboard ads and you see it now, they actually get coverage themselves because the ideas are really great. So Marmite have recently launched a new flavor, I can't actually remember the flavor, but it's got a red-

Adam:
Chili. Hot chili.

Katie:
Hot chili. Thank you very much. It's obviously like a spicy one and they've got these big outdoor ads that are popping up all over the place. And there's a car right next to the billboard ad and there's a huge Marmite red lid in the car. So it's smashed the car to pieces because the Marmite has supposedly exploded because it's so hot.

And there's the really lovely example where BBC did a new series of Dracula last year. And there was a big billboard out in London and they put loads of steak knives in a big billboard. And when the sun was setting, the shadow showed the Dracula's silhouette, which is really clever. 

It's award-winning creative and it just makes you think, God, that creative has been really clever because they've not just gone, "Oh yeah, I've got a billboard ad, so I'm just going to use the creative that I've done that's going to be on social and I'm just going to put it into a print ad." They've thought about how they use that particular media, that particular channel properly and how to grab attention. And I think actually it's a really good opportunity because people aren't using print as much and if they can do it in a clever way, then that's really exciting.

Greg:
I agree. And I think that one of the key things you said there is being clever with it. The way I always look at it is when you get a brief, that the media that that campaign or whatever it is you're creating is going to go out on should also be part of the creative process, as in it should have some creative thought to it. Ideally, what you don't want is to receive a brief for a campaign and be told what the media is going to be.

Yeah, you can shape the campaign to fit that media, but actually if you have a blank canvas and you have an idea, the idea of the concept of the campaign can shape what media you use. The default is obviously to go social and go digital and that's not wrong. Everybody is there, right? But they're also being exposed to a lot of noise on those platforms and they're not on those platforms to be sold stuff. It's consumed by them and they take it in, but if you think about how many ads you see for things when you're online or on your social channels, you're used to seeing ads there now, you're used to filtering them out.

And actually one of the reasons the billboard ads that you're talking about Katie come to life is because they're surprising. And you've got to surprise people in your media. You've got to be creative with it. You've got to be... I love it when we can be as creative with our media execution as we are with our concepts in the first place, because it's just another level, another layer on that campaign. The media type that you use and how you use that media type is just another layer in a concept. And it needs to be thought of in that way, the more creative thought that people can give to their media campaigns, the more effective they're going to be.

The Marmite one for example, the Dracula one for example, if part of the brief is, "Well, we just want ads on social," you don't get that big hit. You don't get that impact because the agencies and the creatives have been allowed to think about, how do we now bring this to life? What can we do with this that's different? That's using those channels in a way that is unique to that channel? The Dracula one you spoke about, you can't do that online. You can only do it in that media. And because of that, there's no restrictions. That's an idea that's come out from working on the promotion of that, thinking this works, and going ahead and doing it and booking the media around the idea rather than creating the idea around the media that's already booked.

Katie:
Yeah. It's the surprise element, isn't it? And I think, yes, people do get blind to big billboards, yes they do. But I think that if you can use them effectively, then that's really important. You need to surprise people. And actually, if there's something... It reminds me actually yesterday I was in the car with my husband and we were stuck in traffic and there was a big billboard next to us and it was for cinch, the car buying website with Rylan, and half of the poster had just been completely ripped down and it was really scuffed and it was kind of all messy and you couldn't see the call to action and everything.

And I said, "Oh, isn't that a shame? That ad's been ripped apart." He said, "Oh yeah. I wonder why that's happening," because it's happened at the top corner. "Do you think they've not stuck it down properly?" Had this whole conversation, probably because we don't go out very often now, because of lockdown.

Look at that poster, and Mike said, "But yeah, we've just remembered that it's cinch. That's what the ad's for." And I thought, that's exactly right. And it's the same thing happens with Marmite, Dracula, it's the fact that it's different. Something has grabbed my attention and yes, on this occasion, unfortunately it's that the poster was ripped, but I thought, it actually went through my mind. "I wonder if a cinch marketing manager's done that on purpose so that it's actually a bit more noticeable." Because it was a bit of a mess, and obviously they wouldn't have done that, but you just think, actually that's the point. It's got to be, for that particular media, it's got to be surprising whilst not letting people crash.

Greg:
It's bravery as well, isn't it? As agencies and as creatives, we can have these wild ideas and put them forward, but actually it's the client, the marketing, the Head of Marketing or whoever it is at the client, it's their neck on the block to take these chances. So we can try and sell it as much as we like and know that it will work. We'll know that it's a great idea, but I do feel for those marketing people that have to then go and ask for the budget for that, because it's such an out there idea and ultimately, it's bravery. The braver you are with things, the more impact that they have, and that's the same across the board with everything.

We were talking about brave brands and brave campaigns a week or so ago on a call, but it's that bravery that stands out. It's those things that stand out. And that goes all the way back to the awards that we were talking about. It's very rare that run of the mill, just a nice piece of creative or a nice idea wins awards. It has to stand out. It has to be different. It has to put its head above the rest of the crowd. They're the things that get it noticed. And like we were saying right at the start of this, Adam, it's around, how do you, as a smaller brand, have the impact and get the notice that bigger brands with bigger budgets have and the way to do that is through being brave.

Katie:
Yeah. And I think the Marmite one's a good example. I've just had another look at it actually, because it came up on my LinkedIn feed and a creative director I used to work with had commented on it, had put something up, someone had put their post up and it's a big picture of Dynamite Chile Marmite bottle with Marmite splattered everywhere. And then the line is, "Love it. Hate it. Be careful with it." And then opposite there's the car with the Marmite lid through the windscreen.

And he put his comment was, "Don't use the line, be brave. Let people work out for themselves." And I thought that's a really good point because it's sort of over-explaining it. It's saying, "Here's an open bottle of Marmite with Marmite splattered everywhere. Here's a Marmite lid in a car window, in a car windscreen next to it. And you're still writing, be careful with it." It's almost like they weren't quite brave enough to say, "Let's not put a line on it and let people work it out for themselves." And I think that's quite important as well.

Greg:
Yeah. You have to give the audience credit, that the audiences we're talking to are clever people. They can pick up on these things and sometimes you can overanalyze it. And I've been in meetings before where you have a creative idea, but there's a request or desire to add to it, just in case someone doesn't quite get it. And I think that's the trick with this is, as I said, be brave. We get it. The people we're talking to get it. The likelihood is the audience are probably going to get it as well.

And if you give an audience that credit that they're going to get this, we don't need to explain it to them, they are going to get it, give them a bit of credit. That's when it allows you to have that edge, have that bravery around it and have the confidence to go, "Look, this is a good idea, or this is a good campaign, or this is really going to work. Let's just let it breathe. Let it do its work." We don't have to explain it because the fact that it's there and what it's actually saying, like you're saying Katie with the Marmite, without that line, it's still saying the same thing.

But it's almost as if we're going, "Someone might see this and not get it, so we need to put this on there." Well, if you're targeting that type of person, you're targeting that type of person and your assumption, therefore, is if we think this is right and brave and strong, our audience is going to get it because that's our target. We think it's right and we are that audience and we're targeting that audience and our brand is about that audience, therefore, if that's what our brand would do, that's what our followers would get.

Katie:
Yeah. And I think when you go to award ceremonies, you see campaigns that have been shortlisted or that win, I think it's that type of campaign that you think, "Oh, it's so simple. I wish I'd thought of it." You always say that, Greg, don't you? It's like, "Oh, why didn't I think of that?" It's just so simple. And it's so bold and brave. There's no added fluff. There's no added anything. It's just a really clear-cut idea that delivers in that way. And I think they're the ones at award ceremonies that I go, "Oh, that's really clever actually."

Greg:
Yeah. And also sometimes, you could still, I quite like it when the penny drops on some things. For example, let's talk about the Marmite one, because we're talking about it, right? If the line's not on there and someone doesn't get it or doesn't see the car with the lid through it, they still see that it's Marmite and they still see what the product is, but the next time they see it, the penny might drop. And then there's a whole new wave of impact from it.

There's a double impact there. There's the first one which you would get from a nice clever billboard anyway, but then there's that second wave of understanding and impact when they realize what you've actually done. I don't think there's anything wrong in that. I quite like it when a campaign or an idea hits you a few times and you see different things in it. I think that's clever. And I think that when you suck some of the explanation out of it, it works better because I think the audience tends to think, "Well, that is actually for me because that's quite clever and not everyone will get that, but I've got it, which means that's for me." And therefore it's having the impact that you want it to have.

Adam:
I think that's really interesting. And I think you should always have confidence in your creative. You should have confidence in your campaign because it should always be inspired and started with the right purpose of trying to achieve a particular action and that you've, throughout the whole course of your planning, thought about how you're going to get that result and how you're going to be different. Don't be afraid to do something creative.

And if you have done something creative, don't be afraid to enter some awards and do it. It could be really beneficial, not just for the team who are working on it, but also just in terms of the whole company. Whenever we enter awards with people, we might be working with a particular part of the business, it might be the executive team, or it might be the marketing department or whatever it is, but there's so much joy and promotion that can come from winning award that can lift everybody up, that can lift an entire business. And it's a really good way of doing it.

So I want us to finish just by sharing a piece of advice. If you're an in-house marketeer, you've had a really great campaign, but your boss is fighting back against spending a couple of hundred quid on an award entry, what advice would you give as to why it's really worth it in a sentence? In a sentence. And I go with Katie first.

Katie:
Oh, in a sentence. That's difficult for me. It gives Greg some thinking time. I would say, if you're trying to sell it into a stakeholder to get that extra cash to enter that award, what you need to do is think about it from their perspective. Think about, it's going to mean something for the business. It's going to have a return. We're going to be able to promote it in this way. We're going to be able to put the logo of that award on our website. And we're going to be able to do X, Y, and Z with it.

It's not it... And reassure them that it isn't just an ego thing for the team. It may well be and that's absolutely fine, but if you can sell that into the stakeholder as this, that's not the number one objective of this, it's actually to help bring leads in or to showcase our expertise, I think that's the best way to do it.

Greg:
I think the advice I'd give is to, as we said, be brave, stand by it, do you believe in it as a brand? Or as a... Let's take brands and campaigns just as an example. Do you believe in it? Do you believe it's stronger than what competitors are doing? And make sure you put it into the right awards and the right categories within those awards.

As I was saying earlier, with some of the awards that you can go in, are you trying to win something for the agency? Are you trying to win something for the client? Does the client want something? If it's for the client, do they really want to win a Design Week award or do they want to win an award in their industry? So it's about, I would say, make sure you get it into the right ones, make sure you get it into the right categories, be brave, and be confident in it.

The other little piece of advice as well is, don't be afraid to lose. Be prepared to lose sometimes on these. It happens, of course it happens. You're not going to win every time, but the process of doing it allows you to improve the next one and it also allows you to see what is happening within your industry as well. You sit in a venue for an evening and all of your competitors show you all their best work, so you know what to do next time.

Adam:
I was going to just echo that. My advice for why people should enter awards is because I think it will make you better at your job. So literally just win or lose, the process of applying, that methodical approach to putting down what you did, why you did it, what it achieved will make you better at your job for next time. It will make you think more creatively, it'll make you focus on evaluation and on measurement on return of investment, and it will help give you more confidence to be more creative for the future to be stronger in how you internally pitch, whether that's within your business or within an agency, pitch your ideas, believe in your creative, because you will just add weight, thought, strategy, and rationale to whatever you're doing.

So I hugely advocate entering them because I think it would just make you better at what you do. And hopefully, that's the point for all of you.